Author Topic: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI  (Read 9608 times)

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« on: November 16, 2010, 01:53:30 PM »
Nerd Alert! Several wasted hours in Sims last night prompted me to think of this connection, so I share it in hopes that someone as nerdy as I finds delight in this comparison as well.

Schrödinger's Cat is a thought experiment which points to a paradox in quantum mechanics when it's applied to everyday objects. A cat is placed in a box, along with a means of death. Theory predicts that because we can't see the cat, it's simultaneously alive and dead inside the box. If we open the box, however, it will be either alive or dead, but not both at once.

Sims AI application: I've become very annoyed with my Sims family. I moved two YA sisters out of the main family house, and into a house next door with two spouses I created for them, in hopes that they would be fertile and multiply on their own. I fixed up the house with a nursery for 3, twin beds for 3, double beds for each couple, the usual toddler and child toys, gave them Family Oriented trait and Fertility Treatment LTR and waited. Nothing happened, no babies, so I sent a sim to visit them and saw that the brothers were sleeping in one double bed, the sisters in the other. Very reluctantly, I switched households and made them woohoo, trying for babies. Success.

See, this house is like Schrödinger's cat box. When no one is "visiting" them, a peek into through the window shows it to be empty of furniture, with sims standing in place or else floating horizontally on invisible beds. However, when the main family visits them and the front door opens, they snap into action and furniture appears within. They only come into being when directly observed. Until then, they're in a semi-simmy state, just potential, not actuality.

I keep an eye on the pregnant household from afar until I peek through the window and see a non-pregnant mom inside an empty house, standing still. Hooray, the babies have been born! I send a family member over, who is let inside, and 4 parents and 4 babies plus furniture are all inside. Here's the part where it gets weird for me. I only made room for 3 babies, so one newborn is on the floor. Oh, and the moms and dads are sleeping with their siblings, not their mates. Still.

If I hadn't peeked inside the box, they would have happily carried out their Simish life, but I couldn't let things remain that way. Reminding myself that this is a pretend family within a pretend family, I ignore myself and again switch households (ouch) to remodel the house to add room for 4 kids. I delete the parents' beds and place new ones and the appropriate sims onto them, establishing the correct bed ownership so that spouses can sleep together. Of course my main family loses all wishes for the second time due to the switch. After all the time I spent remodeling the house and correcting the bed situation, I realized how unnecessary it was.

My point is (the disturbing "pretend" nature of this family aside) the baby was only deprived of its own bed once the front door opened to my visitor. Before that, and after the visitor left, it was a happy AI baby living the way AI babies do (in a state of potential, not actuality). When I switched families and visited, the cribless baby came into being, and that bothered me. For that matter, maybe lots of AI Sims share a bed with the wrong people, who knows? They're in the box. They're simultaneously happy and terribly wrong. They only become appropriate or inappropriate when they open the front door.



I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline Schipperke

  • CAS Contest Coordinator
  • Global Moderator
  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 5241
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 02:50:03 PM »
LlamaMama, I found this post quite fascinating.  Of course, you're entirely right - sims have their secret lives (or existences, or non-existences) that we can only guess at.  I suppose they really only exist (if they can be said to exist) when we are observing them.  The rest of the time, they're in a kind of limbo waiting for story progression to move them along.  I think you've drawn a very clever - and apt - analogy.
 
Designed by Swirl~Girl, THBL Logo by Danielle Haydis                            CAS Contest Logo designed by Samoht04

Please read The Forum Rules.

Links to My Stories                 CAS Contests



Registered members do not see ads on this Forum. Register here.

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 02:57:02 PM »
Thank you for your post! I'm reassured that I got my idea across clearly. :)
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline sydney511

  • Occult
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • R.I.P. Edel - Jan. 14, 1996 - Jul. 02, 2011
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 05:41:02 PM »
I don't understand the cat part, but I do understand the sims part. For some reason the game doesn't "add" extra furniture to inactive houses, or sims don't get any higher in their career. One time, my sim wanted to be a rockstar, but she had quit when she moved out. I went back and made her band manager, but she doesn't advance. Oh well, beats being hobos. :)

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 05:43:15 PM »
I filled the house with furniture, myself. It's just how the AI works (artificial intelligence, or story progression in Sims).
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline Saltypaws

  • Global Moderator
  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 4359
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 05:46:49 PM »
I remember posting this sometime ago, but I have had sims get their lifetime wishes without me, they just did not get their happiness points.  I had a renowned surgeon, Top gun and astronaut, all without me.  You are right though, LlamaMama, for the most part they stand around until the doorbell rings.  I have in rare cases peeked into the windows and actually seen sims going about their daily routines, youth was doing homework, dad watching tv and mom cooking dinner and I was actually stunned, because that does not happen very often.  That was a neighborhood a long time ago, but it still happens once in a while.  Good post LlamaMama and so very well executed. :)
Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Offline sydney511

  • Occult
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • R.I.P. Edel - Jan. 14, 1996 - Jul. 02, 2011
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 06:04:30 PM »
Llama - I know, but I was trying to say that its a little weird to discover somebody that had 2 toddlers has 2 cribs and 1 bed, or when the toddler ages up usually there isn't really a bed.



Registered members do not see ads on this Forum. Register here.

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 06:18:13 PM »
I remember posting this sometime ago, but I have had sims get their lifetime wishes without me, they just did not get their happiness points.  I had a renowned surgeon, Top gun and astronaut, all without me.  You are right though, LlamaMama, for the most part they stand around until the doorbell rings.  I have in rare cases peeked into the windows and actually seen sims going about their daily routines, youth was doing homework, dad watching tv and mom cooking dinner and I was actually stunned, because that does not happen very often.  That was a neighborhood a long time ago, but it still happens once in a while.  Good post LlamaMama and so very well executed. :)

Yes, I've seen that they do leave for work, and spend an inordinate amount of time standing on the beach. Sometimes, through the windows I've seen them move their hands inside the house as if they held objects (guitars, mixing bowls), but the objects don't appear until the door is opened. Your experience with high-achieving solo sims is fantastic! I wish that happened more often!
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline Ausette

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1762
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 12:21:27 AM »
Thanks for the Schrödinger's Cat analogy, I'm a sucker for the old thought experiments (and very, very nerdy) and found it a really interesting read. Story Progression in The Sims 3 tends to be annoying that way, so I often end up moving townies in and out of the active household so I can achieve some of their goals. I'll also use testingcheatsenabled true to force Buy Mode on their home lots and "gift" them a cot if they don't have one for the baby, it's easier than switching households.

Adding an analogy of my own - I've lately been thinking of the AI households (don't laugh) as like the Boggarts from Harry Potter, which are only dynamic when someone's nearby to affect them. Boggarts will transform around people, so nobody knows the form they assume when they're alone and it's uncertain what they'll be until the moment they come out of their box. Sims are similar in that they're only dynamic when you're observing them, such as when you're controlling or visiting their household. For the record, I've used the "zoom-through-walls-press-Tab" trick to view the insides of AI houses before, and it's... pretty much nothing. The Sims in the house will almost invariably be standing next to the front door doing nothing, for as long as you're not actively "observing" them, without dying. I guess this is why a family of eight is perfectly happy to live in a one bedroom hut until you drop over to say hello, after which they'll suddenly start passing out from exhaustion all over the place. Like the Boggart, they don't know how they're going to act until they're called to put a show on for the player. Wow, now you've got me applying Schrödinger's Cat to Harry Potter, good job!  ;D

And don't worry about "Nerd Alert", it's pretty hard to trump me. I've been known to write mathematical formulas to determine what time past an hour a clock's hands will form a straight line, and to calculate the angles in a brilliantly cut gem which would be best in reflecting light back at the source. In my spare time.

Offline Pam

  • Community Manager
  • Forum Founder and Friend
  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 14791
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 12:47:04 AM »
I once had a family where the dad had a Death Flower in his inventory.  I moved one of the adult kids out and stayed with that kid in the new house as my active household.  I got the notification that the father would die soon.  My Sim went back to the old house to raid from the garden.  He didn't go inside or talk to anyone on the lot.  Then I heard the thunder sound of Grim arriving.  Then nothing.  The father didn't die because of the Death Flower.  I thought it was very interesting that the story would maintain itself like that without me being there to play it.
Read and heed the Forum Rules, please!

Support the site when you purchase online!
Dreamweaver Immortal Dynasty
Dreamweaver 4 x 4 Dynasty
Pam's Sims 4 World Blog

"Half of my posts are correcting people. The other 49% is moving threads."

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2010, 12:59:16 AM »
@Ausette: Yay, oh Nerdly One! You could probably explain quantum anything better than I can. Yes, although I was a psych major in college, I took Calculus for fun. But that was 35 years ago, and I don't have a brain anymore.

I never got past the first couple HP books, despite my lifelong love affair with fantasy and science fiction. I had no idea that she played with quantum Boggarts. The Boggarts I know from Susan Cooper weren't quite that sophisticated. If only I could distill the good parts of HP and skip the rest. ;)

I love your idea for manipulating townies within your household. Do you replace them in their original homes when you're done with them? Also, I'll remember the tip about forcing Buy Mode on their lots. In my case, I needed to (or felt like I needed to) re-establish bed ownership, so the switch was unavoidable...unless I just left them alone, which I probably will do next time I get the urge.

Most people on this forum, including you, have much more experience with Sims AI than I do, so I appreciate hearing insights into Sim behavior. If anyone else has observations to share about Sims AI, I'd love to hear about it.

edit: I didn't see your post, Pam. That's a really neat story. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels compelled to follow a family member until they're more or less independent.
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline Pam

  • Community Manager
  • Forum Founder and Friend
  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 14791
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 01:10:06 AM »
@LlamaMama:

The Harry Potter books are absolutely worth reading.  The first two are nothing compared to the rest of the story.  What about the movies?  Have you watched those?  The Boggarts are in Prisoner of Azkaban, I believe.  We can use PM for this if you want, considering how it's off topic.  :)

Read and heed the Forum Rules, please!

Support the site when you purchase online!
Dreamweaver Immortal Dynasty
Dreamweaver 4 x 4 Dynasty
Pam's Sims 4 World Blog

"Half of my posts are correcting people. The other 49% is moving threads."

Offline LlamaMama

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1182
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 01:19:31 AM »
Did this discussion of quantum stuff just crash the forum for a few minutes? Something happened. :)
I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't accidentally walk through into another dimension. -- Steven Wright

Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die,
your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. -- George Carlin

Offline Ausette

  • Watcher
  • ******
  • Posts: 1762
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 01:27:00 AM »
@LlamaMama: Yes, I usually place them back into their houses afterwards, or else into a better one which I've specifically selected for them. I mostly play small families, so I've usually got enough space to move the whole household in, leaving their original home empty so I can renovate it. I try to avoid those kind of situations to start with though by taking time to set my spares up with a good job, spouse and sometimes kids before moving them out.

Thanks for the compliments, but sadly I only became interested in science after I'd locked in my school subjects for my final two years, so I ended up taking History instead of Physics and know nothing about quantum theory. I feel as if I've been cut off from a beautiful world  :'(. Doesn't stop me from taking an interest in everything and anything though, if my friends played The Sims 2 they'd instantly identify me as a clear-cut Knowledge Sim. Oh and I definitely would recommend the Harry Potter series, although the first few are arguably children's books her style gets darker and more sophisticated as she goes along. Great read.  ;D

And at your last comment: Rats, I was going to say something hilariously witty and paradoxical but couldn't think of anything. I'll have to resort to "Until you finish reading this post, it is neither funny or not funny, after which it is not funny."

Offline malteser60

  • Occult
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
Re: Schrödinger's Cat and Sims AI
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 06:09:10 AM »
Brilliant post and never thought of the analogy with Schrödinger's Cat. Our NPC simmies are at the same time functioning and not functioning, happy and not happy. They are there, waiting for us to open the box, upon which they will spring into action  :D

Oh, I think you forgot the bowl of poison in the box with the cat LlamaMama. At least that's how it was explained to me at uni, there is the potential for the cat to eat the poison (e.g. cyanide) or not, thus the cat was both alive and dead at the same time.


 

anything