Author Topic: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)  (Read 87642 times)

Offline SimMyLife

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Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:39:21 PM »
Purpose of this Thread:
I have long been interested in the Painting/Creativity skill in the Sims franchise.  During my time playing Sims 3, I often found myself tracking the values of paintings--Sims 4 is no exception.

In Sims 3, the value of paintings increased depending on how many your Sim had created.  The growth in values was both slow and predictable.  In Sims 4 I am discovering a different trend all together.  The following thread is an attempt to illustrate and make known the many data-driven nuances of Painting in Sims 4.

My Prediction for Painting Value Growth:
As I continue to collect the data, a reoccurring trend has begun to present itself.  The values do not increase steadily, like they did in the Sims 3, instead they tend to plateau.  You can see from the two images below a comparison of the two games:

Sims 3


Sims 4


In the Sims 3, the average value of the paintings increased by about $800 for every 50 paintings you created.  In the Sims 4, the average value of the paintings remains the same.  One massive difference, which is clearly shown in the two charts, is how wide the range of values is in the new installment of the Sims.  While some paintings can bring in quite the nice paycheck, you'll find just as many that barely give a decent return.  Despite the wide range of values, the consistent average serves as sort of a baseline, and the game relies on statistical probability to determine the end-value of a piece--think of a normal distribution centered around that average.

Genre-Based Values
Each genre of painting in the Sims 4 has a different baseline average.  Over the course of the next couple weeks I will be posting the data for each genre here.  For the purposes of comparison, all of the values recorded in this section are from Large paintings.  Also for continuity purposes:
-I begin a new character with the exact same traits (Painter Extraordinaire Aspiration, Muser, Art Lover, Creative, Perfectionist)
-I only paint when "Very Inspired"
-I only level Painting and his/her Painting Career (Real Branch)
-I purchase Marketable and Creative Visionary ASAP

Pop Art

After completing 175 Large Pop Art Paintings, I have found the average to be about $360.  Given the wide range of values, some paintings will only yield profits of $20-30.  The highest value I've come across so far is $1198.

Classic

After completing 325 Large Classic Paintings, I have found the average to be about $3000.  Even after painting so many pieces, some paintings still brought in only $900, however my highest valued painting was worth $10,356.

Realism

After completing 150 Large Realism Paintings, I have found the average to be about $3500.  The values sometimes dipped to around $1400, but my highest valued painting was $9119.

Still to come: Abstract, Impressionism, and Surrealism; Painting Values by Size; Effect of Traits on Value; Effect of Inspiration on Value

Offline saltpastillen

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 02:05:05 AM »
Have you added any rewards that boost value?

Great work btw!



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Offline SimMyLife

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 06:51:04 AM »
Have you added any rewards that boost value?

This is with Creative Visionary and Marketable both in place. I still have yet to give Inspired Potion a try - I'm saving up my satisfaction so I can pump out at least 100 paintings while still under its effects.

And thanks! I'll be sure to continue finding out what I can.

Offline jillz

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 08:07:22 AM »
I really love this! I've been collecting all the paintings in one family.

I had a max level painter who mostly painted the same pictures over and over again her whole life, her son is painting some of the same paintings but some different ones as well. Do you think traits influence what paintings a Sim can produce?

Offline Playalot

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 03:41:25 PM »
I'm just starting off with a painter sim, so this info's great. Gosh what a lot of work! Thanks for sharing  :)
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Offline Deborah

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 01:32:09 AM »
I really love this! I've been collecting all the paintings in one family.

I had a max level painter who mostly painted the same pictures over and over again her whole life, her son is painting some of the same paintings but some different ones as well. Do you think traits influence what paintings a Sim can produce?

Yes, it looks to me like traits do influence what paintings a sim paints. But a little more checking needs to be done to confirm it. Looking forward to checking back for your findings.

Offline grimsoul

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:31:17 AM »
One thing I notice in Sims for compared to Sims 3 is that in Sims 3 when your sim started painting a picture you would know if it was a master piece by what they was painting once you learned which ones was the master pieces. But with Sims 4 just because this picture is a master piece this time doesn't mean that picture will always be a master piece.
You have to wait for them to finish it before you will know if it's a master piece.
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Offline jesirose

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 11:08:06 AM »
One thing I notice in Sims for compared to Sims 3 is that in Sims 3 when your sim started painting a picture you would know if it was a master piece by what they was painting once you learned which ones was the master pieces. But with Sims 4 just because this picture is a master piece this time doesn't mean that picture will always be a master piece.
You have to wait for them to finish it before you will know if it's a master piece.

I really like this, much better for gameplay
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Offline radwyn

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 05:04:30 AM »
I am am really curious about what makes paintings worth more for example pop art always seems to have low values for me even when a masterpiece. Also I get the feeling that painting the same genre of paintings makes high value ones more likely but I am not sure on this.

Offline SimMyLife

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 02:34:02 PM »
I am am really curious about what makes paintings worth more for example pop art always seems to have low values for me even when a masterpiece. Also I get the feeling that painting the same genre of paintings makes high value ones more likely but I am not sure on this.

It seems like each genre of painting has a "base value." When you create a painting, the game seems to generate a value based on that particular genre's base value. So, the probability of creating a pop art painting with a value equal to that of your higher classic paintings (which have a much higher base value) is very small, but still statistically possible.

I still have to do some more research to confirm, but I think this is how the painting skill works. I've been busy with work lately, but should be able to devote some more time to the game in the coming days.

Offline Joria

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »
So, the bottom line of this very impressive research is a Sim should have X traits and X aspiration and for the highest profit paint only X style painting?  Or is it just to see which is the most profitable style of painting?  This could make an interesting Metro challenge couldn't it?
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Offline _Annika_

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 12:11:06 AM »
I had the same thoughts Joria :) I have been looking the game files, but they are very hard to interpret. I think each size and style has at least a starting price or possibly a value range. This can be directly improved by skill level, traits and reward traits, and mood. I'm mostly certain that paintings done while a sim is bored, for example, have a 0.75 multiplier on them.

Offline _Annika_

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 08:20:20 PM »
Ok, after comparing files, each genre of painting has a starting value. Mood and traits most definitely do affect painting value and have multipliers. There is then a value range for each painting, and there is a value curve based on skill. Some paintings have a relatively high base value (they are all negative), but a much lower skill curve. Without knowing the equation I couldn't plot the curve to see which genre comes out on top, but maybe with your testing @SimMyLife, we will see. Try putting two or three curves on each genre, plateauing at level 10, with a max, min and average. I could not find the multiplier for the size, unless it is based off the same value that you pay for the blank canvas when you start.

Offline lindsaysoderberg

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 04:32:29 AM »
Still to come: Abstract, Impressionism, and Surrealism; Painting Values by Size; Effect of Traits on Value; Effect of Inspiration on Value

@SimMyLife, I have spent A LOT of time painting in The Sims 4 and have accumulated over 200 paintings. I was about to delete most of them a day ago because I'm worried about item accumulation and crashing. However, is there a way for me to somewhat easily share all of that data with you, if you would find it useful in your analyses. I'd love to help if possible; so let me know.

Offline DarkWalker

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 11:03:47 AM »
Ok, after comparing files, each genre of painting has a starting value. Mood and traits most definitely do affect painting value and have multipliers. There is then a value range for each painting, and there is a value curve based on skill. Some paintings have a relatively high base value (they are all negative), but a much lower skill curve. Without knowing the equation I couldn't plot the curve to see which genre comes out on top, but maybe with your testing @SimMyLife, we will see. Try putting two or three curves on each genre, plateauing at level 10, with a max, min and average. I could not find the multiplier for the size, unless it is based off the same value that you pay for the blank canvas when you start.


You seem to be mostly on the right track, though I think you misinterpreted a couple things. If I understood the files (including python files) correctly:

- Each kind of painting has a starting (negative) base quality value and a positive delta per level above the minimum for that style. That is under quality_adjustment, and only influences price indirectly, by influencing the quality. This reminds me that I still need to find the quality thresholds and how exactly it's determined.
- Size gives the base sell price. It's §60 for small paintings, §80 for medium, and §100 for large. Look for the _retail_price tag. That price is then multiplied by each applicable multiplier.
- There's a skill based multiplier, different for each kind of painting, given as points on a curve in the simoleon_value_skill_curve tag. It's a single, different, curve per genre. This multiplier is a single value, not a range.
- There's a different multiplier range for each quality and style; see simoleon_value_modifiers_map and simoleon_value_multiplier (that last one inside the masterworks block). Four styles share those multipliers; Classic, Pop Art, Abstract, and Impressionism. Realism paintings have a different set of ranges with a larger variability, and Surrealism has a different set with even larger variability.
- Marketable is also given as a multiplier range inside simoleon_value_modifiers_map. It multiplies the price of the painting by a random value between 1 and 3 (so, if I understood it correctly, it should double the average income while making the range of values far wider).
- Painting a masterpiece is based on chance. Base chance is 10%, plus 1% for each level in painting above the minimum for that style (so Classic has the highest chance of a master piece). That chance is multiplied by 1.25 if inspired, by 1.2 if the sim has the Creative Visionary trait, by 0.75 if the sim is bored, and by 1.4 if the sim has the hidden trait Painting Master — which I couldn't find referenced anywhere else in the tunings or the code, and I currently have no idea how to obtain; perhaps it's granted by those better easels?

Incidentally, if I interpreted the data correctly, the best money maker for a sim with painting 8 or above is Abstract paintings. Classical paintings have a higher masterpiece chance, but Abstract ones have higher value for each quality range, winning in the end.

(Also, the description of the tags in the tdesc files seems to be wrong as far as the multipliers go. It's why I looked in the actual script code; what was described makes no sense from a statistical point of view, and didn't match the data in this thread.)

 

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