Author Topic: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)  (Read 48308 times)

Offline SimMyLife

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Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:39:21 PM »
Purpose of this Thread:
I have long been interested in the Painting/Creativity skill in the Sims franchise.  During my time playing Sims 3, I often found myself tracking the values of paintings--Sims 4 is no exception.

In Sims 3, the value of paintings increased depending on how many your Sim had created.  The growth in values was both slow and predictable.  In Sims 4 I am discovering a different trend all together.  The following thread is an attempt to illustrate and make known the many data-driven nuances of Painting in Sims 4.

My Prediction for Painting Value Growth:
As I continue to collect the data, a reoccurring trend has begun to present itself.  The values do not increase steadily, like they did in the Sims 3, instead they tend to plateau.  You can see from the two images below a comparison of the two games:

Sims 3


Sims 4


In the Sims 3, the average value of the paintings increased by about $800 for every 50 paintings you created.  In the Sims 4, the average value of the paintings remains the same.  One massive difference, which is clearly shown in the two charts, is how wide the range of values is in the new installment of the Sims.  While some paintings can bring in quite the nice paycheck, you'll find just as many that barely give a decent return.  Despite the wide range of values, the consistent average serves as sort of a baseline, and the game relies on statistical probability to determine the end-value of a piece--think of a normal distribution centered around that average.

Genre-Based Values
Each genre of painting in the Sims 4 has a different baseline average.  Over the course of the next couple weeks I will be posting the data for each genre here.  For the purposes of comparison, all of the values recorded in this section are from Large paintings.  Also for continuity purposes:
-I begin a new character with the exact same traits (Painter Extraordinaire Aspiration, Muser, Art Lover, Creative, Perfectionist)
-I only paint when "Very Inspired"
-I only level Painting and his/her Painting Career (Real Branch)
-I purchase Marketable and Creative Visionary ASAP

Pop Art

After completing 175 Large Pop Art Paintings, I have found the average to be about $360.  Given the wide range of values, some paintings will only yield profits of $20-30.  The highest value I've come across so far is $1198.

Classic

After completing 325 Large Classic Paintings, I have found the average to be about $3000.  Even after painting so many pieces, some paintings still brought in only $900, however my highest valued painting was worth $10,356.

Realism

After completing 150 Large Realism Paintings, I have found the average to be about $3500.  The values sometimes dipped to around $1400, but my highest valued painting was $9119.

Still to come: Abstract, Impressionism, and Surrealism; Painting Values by Size; Effect of Traits on Value; Effect of Inspiration on Value

Offline saltpastillen

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 02:05:05 AM »
Have you added any rewards that boost value?

Great work btw!



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Offline SimMyLife

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 06:51:04 AM »
Have you added any rewards that boost value?

This is with Creative Visionary and Marketable both in place. I still have yet to give Inspired Potion a try - I'm saving up my satisfaction so I can pump out at least 100 paintings while still under its effects.

And thanks! I'll be sure to continue finding out what I can.

Offline jillz

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 08:07:22 AM »
I really love this! I've been collecting all the paintings in one family.

I had a max level painter who mostly painted the same pictures over and over again her whole life, her son is painting some of the same paintings but some different ones as well. Do you think traits influence what paintings a Sim can produce?

Offline Playalot

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 03:41:25 PM »
I'm just starting off with a painter sim, so this info's great. Gosh what a lot of work! Thanks for sharing  :)
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Offline Deborah

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 01:32:09 AM »
I really love this! I've been collecting all the paintings in one family.

I had a max level painter who mostly painted the same pictures over and over again her whole life, her son is painting some of the same paintings but some different ones as well. Do you think traits influence what paintings a Sim can produce?

Yes, it looks to me like traits do influence what paintings a sim paints. But a little more checking needs to be done to confirm it. Looking forward to checking back for your findings.

Offline grimsoul

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:31:17 AM »
One thing I notice in Sims for compared to Sims 3 is that in Sims 3 when your sim started painting a picture you would know if it was a master piece by what they was painting once you learned which ones was the master pieces. But with Sims 4 just because this picture is a master piece this time doesn't mean that picture will always be a master piece.
You have to wait for them to finish it before you will know if it's a master piece.
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Offline jesirose

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 11:08:06 AM »
One thing I notice in Sims for compared to Sims 3 is that in Sims 3 when your sim started painting a picture you would know if it was a master piece by what they was painting once you learned which ones was the master pieces. But with Sims 4 just because this picture is a master piece this time doesn't mean that picture will always be a master piece.
You have to wait for them to finish it before you will know if it's a master piece.

I really like this, much better for gameplay
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Offline radwyn

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 05:04:30 AM »
I am am really curious about what makes paintings worth more for example pop art always seems to have low values for me even when a masterpiece. Also I get the feeling that painting the same genre of paintings makes high value ones more likely but I am not sure on this.

Offline SimMyLife

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 02:34:02 PM »
I am am really curious about what makes paintings worth more for example pop art always seems to have low values for me even when a masterpiece. Also I get the feeling that painting the same genre of paintings makes high value ones more likely but I am not sure on this.

It seems like each genre of painting has a "base value." When you create a painting, the game seems to generate a value based on that particular genre's base value. So, the probability of creating a pop art painting with a value equal to that of your higher classic paintings (which have a much higher base value) is very small, but still statistically possible.

I still have to do some more research to confirm, but I think this is how the painting skill works. I've been busy with work lately, but should be able to devote some more time to the game in the coming days.

Offline Joria

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »
So, the bottom line of this very impressive research is a Sim should have X traits and X aspiration and for the highest profit paint only X style painting?  Or is it just to see which is the most profitable style of painting?  This could make an interesting Metro challenge couldn't it?
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Offline _Annika_

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 12:11:06 AM »
I had the same thoughts Joria :) I have been looking the game files, but they are very hard to interpret. I think each size and style has at least a starting price or possibly a value range. This can be directly improved by skill level, traits and reward traits, and mood. I'm mostly certain that paintings done while a sim is bored, for example, have a 0.75 multiplier on them.

Offline _Annika_

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 08:20:20 PM »
Ok, after comparing files, each genre of painting has a starting value. Mood and traits most definitely do affect painting value and have multipliers. There is then a value range for each painting, and there is a value curve based on skill. Some paintings have a relatively high base value (they are all negative), but a much lower skill curve. Without knowing the equation I couldn't plot the curve to see which genre comes out on top, but maybe with your testing @SimMyLife, we will see. Try putting two or three curves on each genre, plateauing at level 10, with a max, min and average. I could not find the multiplier for the size, unless it is based off the same value that you pay for the blank canvas when you start.

Offline lindsaysoderberg

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 04:32:29 AM »
Still to come: Abstract, Impressionism, and Surrealism; Painting Values by Size; Effect of Traits on Value; Effect of Inspiration on Value

@SimMyLife, I have spent A LOT of time painting in The Sims 4 and have accumulated over 200 paintings. I was about to delete most of them a day ago because I'm worried about item accumulation and crashing. However, is there a way for me to somewhat easily share all of that data with you, if you would find it useful in your analyses. I'd love to help if possible; so let me know.

Offline DarkWalker

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 11:03:47 AM »
Ok, after comparing files, each genre of painting has a starting value. Mood and traits most definitely do affect painting value and have multipliers. There is then a value range for each painting, and there is a value curve based on skill. Some paintings have a relatively high base value (they are all negative), but a much lower skill curve. Without knowing the equation I couldn't plot the curve to see which genre comes out on top, but maybe with your testing @SimMyLife, we will see. Try putting two or three curves on each genre, plateauing at level 10, with a max, min and average. I could not find the multiplier for the size, unless it is based off the same value that you pay for the blank canvas when you start.


You seem to be mostly on the right track, though I think you misinterpreted a couple things. If I understood the files (including python files) correctly:

- Each kind of painting has a starting (negative) base quality value and a positive delta per level above the minimum for that style. That is under quality_adjustment, and only influences price indirectly, by influencing the quality. This reminds me that I still need to find the quality thresholds and how exactly it's determined.
- Size gives the base sell price. It's §60 for small paintings, §80 for medium, and §100 for large. Look for the _retail_price tag. That price is then multiplied by each applicable multiplier.
- There's a skill based multiplier, different for each kind of painting, given as points on a curve in the simoleon_value_skill_curve tag. It's a single, different, curve per genre. This multiplier is a single value, not a range.
- There's a different multiplier range for each quality and style; see simoleon_value_modifiers_map and simoleon_value_multiplier (that last one inside the masterworks block). Four styles share those multipliers; Classic, Pop Art, Abstract, and Impressionism. Realism paintings have a different set of ranges with a larger variability, and Surrealism has a different set with even larger variability.
- Marketable is also given as a multiplier range inside simoleon_value_modifiers_map. It multiplies the price of the painting by a random value between 1 and 3 (so, if I understood it correctly, it should double the average income while making the range of values far wider).
- Painting a masterpiece is based on chance. Base chance is 10%, plus 1% for each level in painting above the minimum for that style (so Classic has the highest chance of a master piece). That chance is multiplied by 1.25 if inspired, by 1.2 if the sim has the Creative Visionary trait, by 0.75 if the sim is bored, and by 1.4 if the sim has the hidden trait Painting Master — which I couldn't find referenced anywhere else in the tunings or the code, and I currently have no idea how to obtain; perhaps it's granted by those better easels?

Incidentally, if I interpreted the data correctly, the best money maker for a sim with painting 8 or above is Abstract paintings. Classical paintings have a higher masterpiece chance, but Abstract ones have higher value for each quality range, winning in the end.

(Also, the description of the tags in the tdesc files seems to be wrong as far as the multipliers go. It's why I looked in the actual script code; what was described makes no sense from a statistical point of view, and didn't match the data in this thread.)

Offline _Annika_

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2014, 07:28:33 PM »
Thank you for that detailed analysis DarkWalker. I wasn't sure about the retail price tag and a how the rest of those numbers were applied. Of course, now that you have pointed it out, I see that there is also the crafting cost flat fee, so of course the retail price tag must be the base sell price for size.

The added chance for masterpieces per level was something I didn't see - that would be why my sim seemed to paint more masterpieces for Classical. This bit of information is very helpful for completing the Painter Extraordinaire aspiration, because you have to paint a number of masterpieces. Sticking to Classical while trying to achieve this goal will help to get it done faster.

I'm glad we've got you here to explain these kinds of things :) Hopefully I can pick it up as I go. It looks like I need to pay more attention to the <>start and </>end of each ... phrase (like I probably already mentioned - no programming skills). They weren't quite so important in Sims3 _XML. I took one or two classes in Blue at university, which was supposedly like C++, but it was only enough to get the basic concept of programming. The rest (which also is not much) I learnt through games.

Offline ClayMask

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2014, 03:01:28 AM »
Thanks for the information.  I wonder if it matters what size you paint while your paintings are increasing in value?  For example, if you were planning on painting with a Sim for a long time, would it be better to paint small paintings for the first 100 or so, or would these 100 not count towards large paintings of the same type?

Offline BzGoose

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2014, 11:02:52 AM »
I love this thread. I love graphs. 
Thanks for the information.  I wonder if it matters what size you paint while your paintings are increasing in value?  For example, if you were planning on painting with a Sim for a long time, would it be better to paint small paintings for the first 100 or so, or would these 100 not count towards large paintings of the same type?

It seems to me, from my interpretation of the data, that the number of times you paint a certain type of painting doesn't factor into the value. As long as you are at level 10 painting skill, large (which has a base value that multiples) Abstract paintings are your "go to" if you seek a painting of the highest value.   

Though this discussion generates a interesting question. Yes, large Abstract paintings have been deduced to be the most high valued painting, but what if time was factored into it? Sorta re-formatting the initial question from "What painting variation is of the most highest value?" to "Which painting variation is the most profitable?". Large Abstract paintings made by Perfectionists may yield higher valued paintings, but would smaller abstract paintings made  by non-perfectionists beat them out in time? I admittedly have to put more of my OWN research time into these things, then lazily inquiring to those that have done most of the work.  :-[

Offline ClayMask

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2014, 04:04:16 PM »
Something I'm wondering about and don't see mentioned here yet is how much having the perfectionist trait boosts the value of the paintings.  I wonder if it boosts it enough to make up for the extra time that the paintings take?

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2014, 05:02:47 PM »
Something I'm wondering about and don't see mentioned here yet is how much having the perfectionist trait boosts the value of the paintings.  I wonder if it boosts it enough to make up for the extra time that the paintings take?

On a related note, I am wondering from a sheer money making perspective would painting small sizes earn you more money than large ones given you could crank out more over, say a week?

Offline Viccatrix

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 02:14:26 AM »
Abstract is the best. Just reached lvl 10 painting a half hour ago, and already painted a $13,537 painting.

Offline coolsim9999999

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 12:54:57 AM »
Welcome to the forum Viccatrix :)!

Cool 8).  That's about how much your Sim with a level 10 painting skill will make.  I think my Sim with a level 10 painting skill got §15,000 at some point --- or a little more.
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Offline TrueSimmer95

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 07:59:49 PM »
Large painting price comparison
All painted while very inspired with best easel (Deluxe All-Season Easel from painting career, painting quality: 9).  My Sim is a level 10 in painting and has the following traits of influence:
Perfectionist (Higher quality items)
Creative (Inspired moodlet and painting builds fun need)
Loner (For easier uninterrupted painting, no need for social interaction)
Creative visionary (Higher masterpiece odds)
Marketable (Higher base value of paintings)
Though not required, the reward traits that slow down needs decay are really helpful for completing a large amount of paintings in relatively little time. (E.g. steel bladder, never weary)

Also included were the lot traits "Home Studio" and "Natural Light". Though it is unknown whether the second lot trait has any influence on painting quality, it is worth mentioning. 

After gathering all the data I will use SPSS Statistics to make full comparisons between the 4 types of paintings. (Yes I do have a lot of time on my hands, it's summer vacation).

My expectations:
Surrealism will have the highest variance in value. Roughly meaning the largest average gap between the highest and lowest value paintings. (Confirmed)
Surrealism will have the lowest average value of paintings and the lowest valued painting. (Partially Confirmed)
Surrealism will have the highest valued (single) painting of all the 4 types. (Confirmed)
Classic will have the highest amount of masterpieces. (Confirmed)
Abstract will have the highest average value of paintings. (EXTREMELY Disconfirmed)
Abstract will have the highest minumum value. (Disconfirmed)

Note:
The "M" after certain paintings indicates a masterpiece. All other paintings (all of them Excellent quality) are shown at their base value, and not the art gallery value.
Paintings were completed in the order shown, so first 20 Realism paintings, then 20 Surrealism, etc. It is unknown to me whether the order of painting has any influence on the price or the quality. It could be that mixing things up leads to higher or lower valued paintings. Researching this would take a very long time though.
Before starting this research I completed an unknown amount of various painting types, qualities and sizes. This may or may not have influence on the results of this experiment.
I left out the painting types of Impressionism and Pop Art because in my 11 days of playing-time in The Sims 4 it became pretty obvious that those 2 types have lower value. For example I once got a Pop Art masterpiece worth a measly 800$ or so.

Realism
4,209$ (M)
2,521$
3,497$
1,781$
9,113$ (M)
3,708$
3,698$
7,389$ (M)
3,719$
3,129$
5,554$ (M)
5,878$ (M)
3,442$
3,065$
1,568$
3,412$
1,332$
3,419$ (M)
3,418$
2,159$
Immediate reaction: Realism seems to be a really steady painting type with little variance.

Surrealism
1,411$
1,300$
1,654$
11,196$ (M)
1,980$
735$
1,076$
7,964$ (M)
743$
1,934$
1,782$
1,677$
4,629$ (M)
10,540$ (M)
4,385$ (M)
10,476$ (M)
1,287$
11,661$ (M)
1,679$
6,737$ (M)
Immediate reaction: Surrealism, as expected, looks like the type that gives you extremes in both directions. Remains to be seen whether it can beat the other types for average value.

Classic

5,278$ (M)
5,109$ (M)
5,740$ (M)
5,468$ (M)
1,213$
2,490$
1,458$
1,530$
5,702$ (M)
8,193$ (M)
4,636$ (M)
2,161$
5,265$ (M)
1,453$
846$
9,677$ (M)
3,283$ (M)
8,247$ (M)
2,375$
1,776$
Immediate reaction: while the masterpiece frequency is really high for classic paintings, they seem to have a low average masterpiece value compared to Surrealism. Note the very similar masterpiece values ~5,000$ (Except for painting 10 and 16). Don't expect any legendary value classic paintings.

Abstract
8,931$ (M)
1,314$
8,030$ (M)
3,740$ (M)
2,545$
8,101$ (M)
3,728$
1,941$
2,617$
4,994$ (M)
1,411$
2,342$
2,242$
1,998$
1,566$
6,551$ (M)
2,304$
1,362$
3,112$
2,195$
Immediate reaction: well that was disappointing. It turns out Abstract isn't anywhere as good as I thought. Aside from relatively low masterpiece odds, it seems at first sight that abstract also has a very low average painting value.

After reading through all of the values I think that either Surrealism or Classic will come out as the best type to paint. With Surrealism being more high risk high reward and Classic being more playing it safe.

Results of statistical comparison:
The average value of a painting in general was 3922$.
Average value per type: -Realism: 3800$. -Surrealism: 4242$. -Classic: 4095$. -Abstract: 3551$.
Masterpiece ratio per type: -Realism: 0.30. -Surrealism: 0.40. -Classic: 0.55. -Abstract: 0.30.
Lowest valued painting belongs to: Surrealism
Highest valued painting also belongs to: Surrealism.
Logically the largest variance belongs to Surrealism as well.
Overall the distribution of painting value is normal but skewed to the right, meaning that you'll paint a lot more below average value paintings than above.

Conclusions:
While none of the comparisons are actually statistically significant, the differences are pretty clear from a gaming standpoint.
The most significant difference is between Surrealism and Abstract, on average a large Surrealism painting will get you 691$ more than a large Abstract painting, which really adds up over time.
The least significant difference is that between Surrealism and Classic, with Surrealism only earning you 147$ more on average.
Naturally I understand that drawing conclusions from 80 paintings is a risky business. Depending on the reception of this comment I might do a much larger experiment in the future.

Closing comments:

I'm really happy I did this experiment, since after playing this game so much and reading about the painting skill in forums etc., I still wasn't sure which type was the best to paint consistently.
Overall I'd say that there are 3 tiers/categories of paintings:
Low-tier consisting of Pop Art and Impressionism
Mid-tier consisting of Abstract and Realism
High-tier consisting of Classic and Surrealism

If you're the type of person who gets disappointed after painting for hours in Sims-time and only getting an 800$ painting, then I would advise staying away from the risky Surrealism paintings and stick to Classic. After all, these paintings give you the best chance of painting a masterpiece and carry the lowest risk with them.
If you're planning on painting in bulk (20+ paintings) or if you're like me and you're looking for that 20,000$ unicorn of a painting, then Surrealism is your best bet.

For me I've pretty much done everything with the content I have available to me, but I still dream of the day that I see a 20,000$ masterpiece on my screen. Because then I'll finally have a worthy centerpiece to the great mansion that is my Sims 4 career.

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(Attached picture taken after experiment, almost found my unicorn)

Offline Playalot

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2017, 08:18:42 PM »
Welcome to the forum TrueSimmer95. Very cool experiment. It seems though that recently sims seem to have a 'preferred' genre to paint the highest priced painting. I haven't actually done any real testing on this but just noticed that two of my painters can get the highest priced paintings in two different genres.  Sim A constantly gets this in Abstract while Sim B constantly gets this with Realism. Just thought I'd mention this as I am wondering if the newish lot traits are causing this slight change to the painting mechanics.
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Offline MissZoef

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Re: Sims 4 Painting Values (Ongoing Data Collection)
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2017, 05:03:11 PM »
Never saw this threat before, but I love the research you did. Very interesting to read. Hope you've found your "unicorn"