Over-Emotional Trait

[Pam]

I'm sure most of you are aware of Carl's and Metropolis Man's fondness for the Over-Emotional trait.  It increases positive moodlets by 20%, I believe, and consequently makes everything better.  Improving skills, making money, climbing a career ladder...  all benefit from the increase.  Or do they?  It was suggested in another thread that we do a side-by-side comparison of two virtually identical Sims:  same traits, same career, same life.  The only difference being that one has the Over-Emotional trait and the other doesn't.  How much difference would it make in how fast the Sim advances?  How would it impact money?  Well, I just finished the test and I'm floored by the results.

Sim number one is Marcus Welby.  His career is in the Medical field and the goal is to reach level 10.  His traits are:

Neat
Genius
Bookworm
Workaholic
Over-Emotional

Sim number two is Joe Gannon.  Same career field.  His traits are:

Neat
Genius
Bookworm
Workaholic
Clumsy

I felt that Clumsy would be a neutral trait and wouldn't effect his job one way or the other.  Both lived at 2 Ely Court in Riverview.  I furnished both houses the same.  Same car.  Same everything.  Both went through their careers, wrote two books, and had friends and a romantic interest.  I played the two games indentically as much as I could.  I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise.  No traveling, no collecting, no gardening or fishing.  All they did was work, cook meals, write, and socialize.  I tallied up several items for both Sims and the surprising result was that the Sim WITHOUT the Over-Emotional trait won, hands down.

Marcus Welby's stats (Over-Emotional trait):

Cash on hand:  $23,670
Value of lot:  $12,579
Total net worth:  $36,249
Lifetime Happiness points accrued:  92,062
Time on clock when level 10 was achieved:  Week 4, day 5, 5:00 p.m.
Skills:  Logic - level 9, Cooking - level 5, Charisma - level 5, Handiness - level 3, Writing - level 6

Joe Gannon's stats (Clumsy trait):

Cash on hand:  $26,991
Value of lot:  $12,485
Total net worth:  $39,476
Lifetime Happiness points accrued:  106,017
Time on clock when level 10 was achieved:  Week 4, day 5, 5:00 p.m.
Skills:  Logic - level 8, Cooking - level 6, Charisma - level 7, Handiness - level 4, Writing - level 6

My summary is that perhaps the Over-Emotional trait is beneficial in more long term challenges as the advantages start piling up with larger value moodlets down the line, but in just the regular world for a working stiff...  it doesn't help at all.

[Swede1992]

Really interesting results you got here! These things are really fun to read about!

I do not doubt your ability to try the over-emotional trait this way, but just to play the devil's advocate; which did you do first? Just that, if you did the over-emotional first, then maybe you got experience on how to play that person better the 2nd time?

[Metropolis Man]

Nice work, Pam. Chad Everett would be proud. Oh, man now I'm going to be hearing that blaring siren intro to Medical Center in my head all day!

[Pam]

Really interesting results you got here! These things are really fun to read about!

I do not doubt your ability to try the over-emotional trait this way, but just to play the devil's advocate; which did you do first? Just that, if you did the over-emotional first, then maybe you got experience on how to play that person better the 2nd time?

I did play the one with the Over-Emotional trait first, but I was very careful to play them the same.  I'm experienced enough in Sims 3 that I can play two Sims the same way.  I'm confident that my numbers are solid.

[Swede1992]

Great! Just wanted to clear any possible doubt on this!
I've always wondered how good the over-emotional trait is in the big picture, seeing as I never play with it (evil, mean, loner, kleptomaniac etc. are more fun to me)

[romagia]

I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise. 

Huh? That could mean that the clumsy one got a raise opportunity, while the over-emotional didn't, woudn't it?

[Swede1992]

But raise opportunities are one of those nifty little chances you get all throughout the game. It's not worse than, lets say, NOT getting electrocuted while repairing a microwave oven.
It should be a part of the game, and if you would test exactly how fast they can get rich/promotions, as was a large part here, it would do injustice to the experiment to exclude them since it's a part of what you're researching!

[Pam]

I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise. 

Huh? That could mean that the clumsy one got a raise opportunity, while the over-emotional didn't, woudn't it?

Considering that both of them achieved level 10 on exactly the same day, they both had the same chances to get opportunities related to their jobs.  If various opportunities came up as a result of their skill, performance, or mood, that's perfectly fair within the spirit of the experiment.  The ones I didn't accept were the opportunities to make money by preparing a recipe, etc.  But if one of them got the chance for a raise by making friends with someone at City Hall, yes, I took it.  Which, by the way, both of them got that opportunity.

[Metropolis Man]

This was really interesting, Pam. And I appreciate you taking the time to do it. If I had to guess on whether Over-Emotional impacts career performance vs. skilling speed more, I'd definitely say skilling. Your little experiment pretty much shows that OE doesn't have a huge impact on career advancement. But, having a good mood seems to have a pretty serious impact on how quickly skills are learned.

[Pam]

I would have thought so, too, Metro.  But these two Sims had a good deal of skilling going on.  I included stats on five different skills that they both worked on during the course of their careers.  The one without the Over-Emotional trait came out ahead by at least a point on all but one skill.  And they tied on that one.

[Metropolis Man]

That's really bizarre. And it almost doesn't make sense to me. I recently did my own little OE experiment with a Zeus and Hera test couple for the nectar tourney. I wanted to see how quickly both of them could hit lvl 3 gardening to unlock the fertilizer option. So, for Round 1 I immediately sent the newly created couple immediately to bed and when they woke up had them Woo Hoo. So, the big thing there is they both had the nice Well Rested moodlet and the Having a Blast moodlet. Then they got to gardening and I think it took them around 15 plantings exactly to get to lvl 3.

For round 2 I exited the couple without saving and started again. This time they just immediately started planting and they could not fertilize after 15 plantings. It was close. But, I had to dig into the Inventory with the freebies they received to tick them over to lvl 3. So, at least in that little experiment, mood does help the skilling a bit. Is it night and day? Definitely not.

[jmz95]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. You're saying that OE has little or nothing to do with any short term playing. However over, say 15 weeks 2 days, OE has a big impact? Did you by chance test these characters past the time it took them to get to level 10 in their careers?

[Eftyen]

Metro - Nice tip with the sleep/woohoo combo!

I'm guessing it doesn't matter what the mood bonuses come from, or whether your Sims are at or above the top of their mood bubble.  As long as it's full, it should have the same positive effect on skilling, task-speed, etc.

Metro, do you remember how full the bubbles were for the second test?

[Metropolis Man]

Metro - Nice tip with the sleep/woohoo combo!

Oh, that's golden. I've done that for most of my recent challenge characters. Well, assuming there's two characters. Couldn't do that in Perfectly Happy. With solo characters I usually put them to bed right away, and then immediately send them to the Library to play video games to get the Having a Blast moodlet. It's tough because compared to Woo Hoo, that route eats up a couple more hours.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter what the mood bonuses come from, or whether your Sims are at or above the top of their mood bubble.  As long as it's full, it should have the same positive effect on skilling, task-speed, etc.

That I don't know. The Zeus and Hera that Woo Hoo'd and were Well Rested were unquestionably completely green on their mood bubble. The question is, let's say they also had the +93 to mood moodlet from a Spa vacation thrown in too. Would they have hit lvl 3 gardening quicker than planting 15 plants? I don't know.

Metro, do you remember how full the bubbles were for the second test?

They definitely weren't completely full (Elated). It was however full brand new Sims are. I don't know what the term is when you hover over the bubble — happy, maybe?

[Pam]

That's really bizarre. And it almost doesn't make sense to me. I recently did my own little OE experiment with a Zeus and Hera test couple for the nectar tourney. I wanted to see how quickly both of them could hit lvl 3 gardening to unlock the fertilizer option. So, for Round 1 I immediately sent the newly created couple immediately to bed and when they woke up had them Woo Hoo. So, the big thing there is they both had the nice Well Rested moodlet and the Having a Blast moodlet. Then they got to gardening and I think it took them around 15 plantings exactly to get to lvl 3.

Neither of my Sims did any gardening or fishing.  Their skills were mostly related to their careers and just surviving.  They didn't advance to the point where they got any large positive moodlets.  They were in the Medical career, which has very long hours.  So, they spent their time studying, working, sleeping, and eating.  And some socializing.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. You're saying that OE has little or nothing to do with any short term playing. However over, say 15 weeks 2 days, OE has a big impact? Did you by chance test these characters past the time it took them to get to level 10 in their careers?

It was the short term play that was in question.  Specifically, as regards careers.  So, that's all I tested.  They focused on reaching level 10 in Medicine, nothing else.

[Tealeaf]

Interesting to get some hard data on the question.  Thanks, Pam!

     I think that it is clear the Over Emontion is a good trait to have as long as you manage your sim's life in such a was as to take advantage of the benefits.  But I'm not sure I believe it is universally better than say one of my favorite traits, neurotic.  With that one a sim can check the nearest sink and then freak out, both giving near instantaneous moodlet bonuses.  Of course the check sink one is minor and fades away quickly, but I think the freak out moodlet is pretty substanial. 

   So which is the better trait?  I'm going to guess that answer depends on who is playing that particular sim.  We aren't all the same person, and we don't all have fun the same way.

[Metropolis Man]

So which is the better trait?  I'm going to guess that answer depends on who is playing that particular sim.  We aren't all the same person, and we don't all have fun the same way.

Absolutely. You're spot-on there. That list that I threw up for the best traits for career Sims is obviously what I do. Almost any combo of traits works for Sims if you're diligent. By the way, what kind of moodlet does Freak Out provide and how long does it last?

[TGBlank]

Don't have a neurotic with me to test, but it lasted more than 4 hours and it was at least a +20 (tho i don't remember if that sim was also over emotional).

One thing i noticed with a neurotic perfectionist painter (who may have been either over emotional or hopeless romantic) i made once is that she got 250 LTH wishes to do the dishes almost on every meal, Plus sink-checking and stove-checking ones.

[Metropolis Man]

One thing i noticed with a neurotic perfectionist painter (who may have been either over emotional or hopeless romantic) i made once is that she got 250 LTH wishes to do the dishes almost on every meal, Plus sink-checking and stove-checking ones.

Yeah, I'm wondering if this is one of the tricks used by the leaders in the Perfectly Happy tourney. There's been some great happiness points racked up in that event. For more than I've ever accomplished.

[Tealeaf]

I just created a brand new, standing in his empty lot sim to play the Centurian challenge.  He is neurotic and neat, not over emotional, and his first tranqil moodlet from freaking out was +10 mood for eight hours.  Not as big a boost as from the OE trait, I suspect, but near instantaneous, and the neurotic and neat traits do combine to give some killer lifetime happiness point.

[Metropolis Man]

... and the neurotic and neat traits do combine to give some killer lifetime happiness point.

I know. That's gotta be the big secret in Perfectly Happy. Or at least one of the techniques some of the big players are using.

[Carl]

These results are interesting indeed, but I'd like to offer a couple of observations for criticism from you guys. Although Pam's original test was to see how OE affected career performance. I think in these cases Over Emotional can serve a major role regardless because they will require you to do less to reach that coveted green mood bar and green career mood smiley. For a pro player going after a career, they will have to do less to achieve each of these benefits. Once the career mood metric smiley is green, it's done. It can't get better. In some instances if you can keep the mood metric fine without going out of the way OE can be ditched, as far as careers go.

Someone on the forum also told me that there's a difference in lifetime happiness point generation the higher the mood bar. With these results I question that idea. Consider this: Pam is a pro player, she's very good at the game and can maintain consistency throughout two tests. The clumsy Sim managed to earn more points. This seems odd, because the over-emotional Sim must have always had a higher "happiness score" given the same moodlets and I know Pam wouldn't let them stay unhappy, negating the potential negative effects of the trait.

This results in a  1/5 higher mood bonus no matter what the OE Sim does. While we can chalk some of this up to random variation in the wishes offered to the Sim, I must wonder if meeting the positive happiness gain on the mood bar is actually inferior to having a maximized mood bar. True, sometimes the two Sims in the test would be equal, but over that course of time the OE Sim would have to, on average, have a higher mood total yet clumsy won.

I'm reevaluating my stance on this trait because of this, unless someone can provide concrete evidence that having the mood bar completely maximized makes a real impact on happiness point generation. However we all know that the bulk of lifetime happiness will come from completing wishes.  From here, it looks like meeting "green" on either career or mood is quite enough and the only role OE could serve is requiring you to perform fewer tasks to reach either of those "greens".

[e^(pi*i)]

Here's my take on it- Being clumsy makes people happier and more successful.

Maybe this should have been tried with never-nude.

(joke post is joke)

[Metropolis Man]

Someone on the forum also told me that there's a difference in lifetime happiness point generation the higher the mood bar.

That would have been me.

With these results I question that idea. Consider this: Pam is a pro player, she's very good at the game and can maintain consistency throughout two tests. The clumsy Sim managed to earn more points.

You dare question me!   No, seriously, I was surprised at Pam's results as well. Here's the concrete proof you need, my friend. And this is really the only way it can be measured. Once you start throwing in wishes and everything, and stretching things over weeks, forget it. There's too many unknowns.

Okay, the test couple in question are my brand, spanking new Zeus and Hera for the nectar challenge.

Test A. Put Zeus and Hera to bed immediately and have them Woo Hoo upon waking up. Run the clock til 12PM. Lifetime Happiness points accumulated: 384 between the 2 of them.

Test B. Take out the sleeping factor and just have them Woo Hoo. Run the clock to 12PM. Lifetime Happiness accumulated between the two of them: 311.

So, what's learned: they were elated in both situations. But, the extra Well Rested moodlet added more LTHP to the total. Fulfilling wishes obviously has a much larger impact. But, the higher the mood, the faster you'll earn happiness points. No question about it.

[Swede1992]

No questions whatsoever that it maybe makes a difference, but in the big picture, how much difference? Pam's excellent research on this shows that it may just be a superficial bonus, so we may be stuck here for months trying to argue if you could do it differently to better see the difference before someone actually can prove it with several full-scale games .

[TGBlank]

Ok, after digging the interwebs for some experimental data, i've got a good idea of how mood bar affects skilling.

Mood bar between 0 and bubble: standard skilling rate, it doesn't matter if you're starving and on fire or if you're happy but not in the bubble, you skill at the same speed.

Mood bar inside the bubble: increase the standard skill rate by how much in the bubble you are, so full mood bar means +100% skill rate.


Also a note on neurotic: having the freak out moodlet stops any and all fun drain due to stress. I can see this trait being teh awesome for workers and writers.

[Swede1992]

Also a note on neurotic: having the freak out moodlet stops any and all fun drain due to stress. I can see this trait being teh awesome for workers and writers.

Really? I barely play with neurotic so I wouldn't know, but if that is true, then you can skip workaholic because its best effect can be duplicated with neurotic! Neurotic sims can also get these little mood boosts now and then, so I would believe that it's better than workaholic. Maybe in combination you could create the perfect Peter Gibbons!

[jestina]

Neurotic is one of my favorites. Not only is it entertaining but also useful. Just freak out before work and you're tranquil for the next eight hours.

You also get opportunities with it like check the stove, wash hands three times, brush teeth, clean and so on.

[Pam]

I just played an Neurotic Sim and the tranquil moodlet is only 10 points.  The moodlet for checking a sink is only 15 points.  I may have these reversed, but I'm positive of the values.  So, is it really worth it to have these moodlets?

[jestina]

Well there's no negatives, except for like maybe your sim becoming anxious to check the sink and every little bit helps before running off the office in the morning. When the neurotic is stressing, the sim can just freak out to get rid of it.

You have to factor in all the little opportunities that pop up for neurotics too. Those add up for lifetime rewards.

I guess if you're min/maxing though you'd probably want workaholic but it's not as much fun to play as a neurotic.

As long as you're in the bubble, that's all the matters. Some people just have different ways of getting there, like Carl's love of over emotional. I've never really used that trait myself.

Oh, one thing I should note...it looks like the traits guide doesn't mention that brave can give you a better chance at getting promotions. That's probably my most favorite trait to have.

[Tealeaf]

I'm in the "loves to play neurotic" camp as well.  It was a complete surprise to me.  When I first started playing, I had a habit of only making sims with "good" traits.  But that quickly became boring, so I thought it might be fun to give each new one at least one "bad" trait, just to see if I would notice a difference.  I'm glad I did, I never realized that something that sounds so negative in real life can be so fun in a game.   For me, sims are much more interesting when they aren't too perfect.

[Eftyen]

I made a mental case theme-Sim: Neurotic, Insane, Over Emotional, Loner, Bookworm.  He turned into a near-perfect hermit/writer!

And yes, the 8-hour tranquil moodlet from freaking out is GOLDEN for writing marathons!

[Swede1992]

Often the 'mental cases' are the most normal and productive sims around, makes you think...

[TheLostGirls]

Are you looking at me Swede?

In my Legacy I played a clumsy, unlucky, neurotic Sim. He got wishes to wash is hands 3 times but he would break the sink after the first time. That was hysterically funny.

[Esther1981]

I guess I'm like Carl in this one. I love OE! A trip to the day spa and the $7500 package is +93 for a week!! Same with eating Ambrosia and fulfilling your LTW. Plus I like living at the empty 60x60 lot and getting +37 vista all the time. I definitely think its one of my favorite traits!

[ForgivingSoul]

I have to agree with those who enjoy the OE trait more. Every time I play with my OE sims, I tend to do a lot better in the long run with mood than anything else. Of course I stay away from any negative moodlets as if it were a disease xD  but I definitely think that the trait is something a long-term hardcore simmer must have if happiness is an issue. I'm not putting any of Pam's research down. In fact, I find it very informative and insightful. I never knew all of that before I read this topic. Thanks Pam! I still love the OE trait though

[Wai]

Pam,

I hope you don't mind, but, as I frequently use the over-emotional trait myself, I decided to run my own little experiment.

My sims were Test Subject and Control Subject.

The Traits were: Ambitious
                           Bookworm
                           Genius
                           Natural Cook

I left Control Subject with just the four traits and added Over-Emotional to Test Subject

Both Sims had "The Cullinary Librarian" as their LTW.

I played until both had completed their LTW.

I played both together and had them do everything simultaneously.  They went to the library together, showered at the same time, grilled identical meals in the park etc.  I also allowed them to complete wishes when they both had the same one.  I cancelled all wishes that they could not both complete.

Result:

Test Subject completed the LTW on Week 1 day 5 @ 15:04  - at that point her happiness points = 49,112.
Control Supject Completed the LTW the same day @ 18:01 -  at that point her happiness points = 49,280
                                                                                                  at 18:01 Test Subject's points      = 49,289

So, there was almost no difference in points between the two, but, Test Subject was a little quicker when reading cookbooks and recipes.   I found this odd as Test's moodlets were slightly higher throughout the test, but, made no significant difference to the happiness points at the end.

The extra speed in reading probably translates to other tasks, but, I'll leave that to others to test.  Over time, the saving could be significant.  However, I am not sure now whether I will use over-emotional so much.

[ilovethesims]

I have played both neurotic and over emotional Sims. A neurotic Sim can be quite precocious because he is always checking the stove or the sink but I think the Tranquil moodlet after these activities are done is just great. When I'm racing to get the highest number of Lifetime Happiness points, I usually add the Over - Emotional trait to increase the rate at which the points increase.

[scoed]

I really used any trait for mood and have little trouble maintaining full bubbles 95% of the time after the first week, then again I abuse alchemy and the elixor store. I think other traits are more useful like bookworm, suave seller or ambitious.