Author Topic: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?  (Read 335 times)

Offline reggikko

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My teen vampire who has taken no weaknesses yet, gets almost no hunger satisfaction from either the plasma fruit salad or the plasma packs. Her hunger bar was probably 60% full and she had to eat two salads to get full. Is this by design? I haven't played much with vampires and chose that as one of my Rival Dynasty bloodlines. Having to go out to find prey gets a bit inconvenient, plus it really racks up the number of enemies. Any experienced vamp players have any advice?

Offline MarianT

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2019, 04:08:11 PM »
My teen vampire who has taken no weaknesses yet, gets almost no hunger satisfaction from either the plasma fruit salad or the plasma packs. Her hunger bar was probably 60% full and she had to eat two salads to get full. Is this by design? I haven't played much with vampires and chose that as one of my Rival Dynasty bloodlines. Having to go out to find prey gets a bit inconvenient, plus it really racks up the number of enemies. Any experienced vamp players have any advice?

I go with the plasma packs. They're a bit expensive, but if you keep topping off, they work okay. Just don't let your vamp's hunger get into the orange range. I've never tried the salad; the plasma fruit is about as satisfying as a carrot to a normal Sim.
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Offline Kellven

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2019, 03:53:25 AM »
I realize this was a little while ago now, but still relevant(I think, haven't tested in a while).
Vague recollection tells me this problem was a careless wrong value in one of the files, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed.
In TS3 at least, plasma juice cartons worked just as well as noming the neighbors for plasma needs. I remember searching MTS for anything fixing this, but came up empty. I vaguely remember an English/German site possibly having some mod addressing this, but can't remember the details.
I was hoping someone around here knew where the offending data value was, and would post the location, so I could fix it myself locally. I was kind of hoping to just do a text/hex edit and avoid installing the TS4 modding toolchain as I deliberately stopped modding after TS1.
Alternatively, it would be an excellent quick project to put a fix up on MTS if any active modders are inclined.

Offline Rainbow Dash

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2019, 06:53:57 AM »
Have you tried asking for permission? I find that Plasma packs are the best but I never let my Vamps hunger get too low, only about half way then it takes about four Plasma Packs, I prefer them because they are faster.

I believe the Vampire Mega Mod has been updated so that all Vampire foods give more thirst, I think there is another mod that does the same, look around.

Don't take Sloppy Drinker or Insatiable Thirst unless you are planning to only drink deeply or you'll be struggling to keep your Vampire's thirst satisfied.

Offline Kellven

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2019, 07:15:04 PM »
Mega Mod does have xml files listed at least.
If I remember correctly, the reason I dismissed the mods available last time I checked was that everything addressing the plasma food issue had all kinds of other modifications attached as well. The version of Mega Mod I found doesn't even seem to list what exactly it does currently.
It's unfortunate, but that seems to be the fate of longer running mods that aren't taken over by an organized maintenance team, which typically embrace modularity and fare better over time. Also unfortunately, the Sims modding community has historically tended toward hermitdom rather than collaboration.

Offline Heart Foam

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2019, 07:43:26 AM »
Yup. They're essentially useless. I've found the vamp's hunger to be broken (by design?) since day 1. Plasma fruit food and plasma packs really need to be more effective. Such a pain to play a vampire. I've used the build mode items forever, but only played a vampire when I didn't have to deal with that insane hunger.

Can it be fixed? Yes. Get Famous has a "celestial celebrity crown". Load that up with shinolite. Don't continuously wear the helmet though, just put it on and take it off.

And Realm of Magic's "potion of plentiful needs", unlike the science serum, will actually max a vampire's thirst and energy.

With either of those, playing a vampire is fun. I'm playing one now in a new save to turn some original sims, keeping them around for future generations. I like the idea of Nancy Landgraab as so fake and so plastic that she can't die. And other sims that otherwise aren't around long. Dennis Kim is another vampire. Yeah, spellcasters have that immortality potion, but "immortal" sims still age! So for keeping Nancy alive and for future Landgraab girls in the family, nothing beats vampires.
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Offline scoed

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2019, 01:38:11 PM »
I have played tons of Vamps in my simming life and the trick to maintaining thirst is "ask permission to drink". It doesn't lead to a negitive relationship if friendship is 33% or so or better. It gives a decent fill. Most of my Vamp games hire a butler. They are a walking snack machine that cleans and gardens. "Free services" reward trait is cheap and takes care of the cost of that handy snack. Plasma fruit and packs aren't useless but should never be used as a primary food source but a quick top off before work or an emergency food source to use to raise moods while building relationships with a local blood cow to not take that relationship hit.

I love vamps but early vamp life can be rough. That sun allergy and thirst takes micro management at first, but after a time vamp needs become much easier to manage after careful investment in powers. Much less maintenance than any other life state other then casters. Casters are too easy from start. Vamps get there but you must work to that point. That is why I love them. Most of my sims since the packs release have been vamps as I love earning true ease and power.

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Offline Kellven

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 01:09:18 AM »
Unfortunately, it appears necessary to install the whole modding toolchain even when only dealing with xml edits.
That does however bring up something, there's a programming maxim about release code being closed for modification, open for extension.
The basic idea is to never directly edit any piece of code after it's done being made. In theory, it was made correctly in the first place, and does what it says on the tin as the Brits say. Maxis code is unfortunately written in crayon as often as not, but their careless incompetence doesn't excuse modders compounding the problem with more wrongs.
Assuming Maxis will never fix their broken heuristics themselves, the right way to fix the problem with a mod would be not to change the values, but to introduce a new in-game item that works correctly in it's own mod, requiring nothing outside Vampires & Base game, and contains nothing else. It's the clean solution, and if Maxis would stop needlessly breaking mods across the board, futureproof, never requiring an update even if the heuristic values get fixed, that's why the maxim exists in the first place.
My thought was to reintroduce the plasma juice boxes from TS3, don't even remember what was in TS2 now. Might also be interesting to have a bulk case of 12 also, both being available for online order and crafting in some kind of fruit press. A milkplasma delivery NPC showing up just after sunset in a white uniform dropping off a case at the front door would be awesome, but I haven't actually done Sims mods since TS1.

Offline Rainbow Dash

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 04:42:25 AM »
Quote
Posted by: scoed« on: September 22, 2019, 01:38:11 PM »I have played tons of Vamps in my simming life and the trick to maintaining thirst is "ask permission to drink". It doesn't lead to a negitive relationship if friendship is 33% or so or better. It gives a decent fill. Most of my Vamp games hire a butler. They are a walking snack machine that cleans and gardens. "Free services" reward trait is cheap and takes care of the cost of that handy snack. Plasma fruit and packs aren't useless but should never be used as a primary food source but a quick top off before work or an emergency food source to use to raise moods while building relationships with a local blood cow to not take that relationship hit.

I love vamps but early vamp life can be rough. That sun allergy and thirst takes micro management at first, but after a time vamp needs become much easier to manage after careful investment in powers. Much less maintenance than any other life state other then casters. Casters are too easy from start. Vamps get there but you must work to that point. That is why I love them. Most of my sims since the packs release have been vamps as I love earning true ease and power.

I've never really thought of Public Services to keeps my Vamps fed, I don't really use them but is an interesting idea, could be fun to have a Plasma slave.

Your information on "Ask for permission" is interesting as I've had Vampires be turned down by their own spouses before, even with full friendship and romance bars and also had Sims with almost no relationship to them say yes. (For some reason Victor Feng has never turned down Caleb). This makes me believe that success rates relies on more than just relationship.

I have to disagree that Plasma fruits and packs should never be the main source, in fact I think it's a great idea for storytelling purposes or if you want your Vampire to struggle, even more fun if you take those weaknesses. ;) Of course this is only good if you like that type of gameplay.

Personally, I prefer to have my Vampires drink deeply from other Sims, it feels more real to me, the relationship hit doesn't bother me. Sometimes I prefer to go the "Ask for permission" route or be reliant on Plasma fruit and packs, depends on what kind of story or Vampire I'm playing at the time.

I do agree that Spellcasters are too easy but there are ways to make being one more challenging as well, in the end Occults are what we make them and how we play them. :)

Offline Kellven

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Re: Are plasma fruit salad and plasma packs essentially useless?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 11:08:49 PM »
It appears scoed was posting as a realist, talking about what IS now the situation in game, and making statements of current fact.
Rainbow appears to be posting as an idealist, about what TS4 SHOULD look like, and taking scoed's comments as endorsements rather than reporting of current on the ground facts.
It's a problem with the English language that there's usually no linguistic differentiation between stating a fact and stating a goal, specifically; I think it's a lack of differentiable verb tense with the imperative.

I was also rethinking my solution idea. Adding a new game item is the correct solution, cloning the plasma pouches is probably the best asset solution atm, though I'm unsure what implementation problems that entails, with TS4 using at least 3 incompatible programming languages in a glorious design "triumph". The whole point was to have a clean code break with Maxis so it never gets broken by "world class" Maxis QA coders.

Video game crafting is always popular now, but catering to contemporary Medievalists is wrong in any context. We have an amazingly functional system of fungibility with currency already, and it's one of the few parts of TS4 that works well. Given all the plasma products(I think) have Simoleon value, just selling them and buying the new functional item is the obvious solution.

So, a new plasma pack with stats that actually fill as much Vamp thirst as a plate of food does normal sims, that can be bought with Simoleons.
Unfortunately, Maxis seemingly forgot how it's own food stats actually work, and has only sporadically released new foods with correct calorie data, but one plasma pack = full thirst bar is the simple answer. The problem is I was attempting to do this right, not just quick and done, and I know the calorie system was intrinsically tied into the fatness system before Maxis forgot how it's code worked.

So now I need to find out exactly how the code deals with Vampire feeding calories. I suspect it ignores them completely, as I've never seen any of my vampires get fat off plasma, but I don't know that for a fact. Then there's the question of whether or not plasma SHOULD have calories for a Vampire, without real life vampires to draw conclusions from, it's purely a question of game mechanics, which I'll have to think about.

Really shouldn't have to do all of this, but marketing demographic algorithms replacing actual game design are an established industry "feature" now, and Maxis admitted they jumped on board back around launch.