Author Topic: Confusion About Horse Breeds  (Read 22507 times)

MaryMarsh

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Confusion About Horse Breeds
« on: October 27, 2011, 03:13:07 PM »
There are no horse breeds in Sim 3 Pets.

What? but ... but ... but ...

In CAS we're shown a tab labelled "Breed" and are offered a number of choices. Alas, these so-called breeds are only there to help us imprint limited colors and conformation on the animal we're creating/modifying. In game, if we select a horse, no where does it show us the breed of the animal.

In Adopt a Pet, we are sometimes given a choice of breeds among the Mixed selections. These appear only to give us some notion of how the pet will appear.

Were breeds actually an integral part of the game we'd be restricted as to horse colors in CAS; for instance, no Arabian could exhibit buckskin or Palomino coloring, nor would it have spots or feathered fetlocks.

In Sims 3 Pets, horse breed is a matter of personal imagination and roleplay; otherwise, the term is meaningless.

Some clarification about Wild Horses and Mustangs. First, the only truly wild horse is the Przewalski's Horse, which is native to Mongolia. Otherwise, all free-roaming horses, including Mustangs, are ferel horses; meaning, somewhere in the past their ancestors were of domesticated stock. While there is some indication that equine species existed in North America in early history, all of these died out between 10,000-12,000 B.C. The Mustangs we're familiar with today were introduced by Spanish conquistadores and were principally of Andalusion, Arabian, and Iberian lineage.

In Sims 3 Pets, any free-roaming horse not owned by an NPC or other Sim is a Wild Horse. There are a couple of instances where the game uses the terms 'Wild Horse' and 'Mustang' interchangeably. While this may be confusing to some, the reference is largely irrelevant because, as I said earlier, breed is absolutely meaningless in the context of game play. Shakespeare might have put it this way: a horse by any other color (or conformation) is still a horse.

Now, it happens that my Sims raise Arabian horses, but this is only roleplay on my part. My foundation animals (the original horses I made in CAS) were done up to closely resemble the real-life Arabian Horse standard, but it's only roleplaying; insofar as the game is concerned they're still just horses. Were there a real Arabian breed in game, horses would be born with the following traits: intelligent and spirited. They would also have the Lifetime Reward of 'Desert Pony' built in, but this is not the case because breed in Sims 3 Pets is irrelevant for anything except limited coloring and conformation in CAS.

Finally, the game makes no distinction amongst horses per their value. In real life purebred animals, like Clydesdales, Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses, and Arabians, sell for much more than "mixed" breed animals. Likewise, their stud fees are infinitely higher; yet, in Sims 3 Pets the value of all horses is egalitarian. Traits, training, competitive standing, and parentage are the only criteria affecting value of horses. Breed and purity of bloodline are irrelevant because they are not a component of game mechanics.

Offline Lesleyxxx

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Re: re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 05:09:49 PM »
Very clear and informative.  Any chance of this being made a sticky please?



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Offline Carl

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 09:13:45 PM »
Stickied! Thank you very much Mary for sharing the info here. I needed to test this for the horses guide. I knew this applied to dog and cat breeds, but that is kind of obvious since they cannot be sold. The coat and accessories of an animal are like the skin color and clothing for a Sim. I will update the Horses page with this info tonight. 

Offline Ausette

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 10:19:22 PM »
This is a wonderful essay, MaryMarsh. You really know your horses, and I enjoyed reading about them. It's so easy to forget how much video games have to forfeit reality to make gameplay as streamlined as possible, so having this as a counterpart to that is just fantastic.

Shakespeare might have put it this way: a horse by any other color (or conformation) is still a horse.

Ooh, Shakespeare! Which quote is that? MacBeth?

"Ay, in the catalogue ye go for men;
As hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs,
Shoughs, water-rugs and demi-wolves, are clept
All by the name of dogs"

MaryMarsh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 10:46:00 PM »
Romeo and Juliet

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

Offline Ausette

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 10:50:29 PM »
Ah, of course.   :)

Offline Hosfac

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 12:30:08 PM »
Romeo and Juliet

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

Actually:  That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.

(Although, I'm always glad to find other fellow Shakespeare nerds :P )



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MaryMarsh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 03:05:55 PM »
Gads, I've been basturdizing that line for so many years I've forgotten the correct phrasing *head desk*

I'm hardly a Shakespeare nerd. My knowledge of the Bard is pretty much limited to knowing that he wrote during the reign of Elizabeth I. I'm much more an history geek  ;D

Offline cndneh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 01:38:03 PM »

(Although, I'm always glad to find other fellow Shakespeare nerds :P )

My crazy uncle wanted us to recite poetry during thanksgiving once, I was going to learn the "To Be or Not To Be" soliloquy  and say the whole thing.  As it was the rest of my family thought he was crazy and no one was going to recite poetry.  I did learn the first few lines of it though... I only read Shakespeare at school and Hamlet was great (Merchant of Venice had the awesome trial scene - a pound of flesh and all that)

Completely off topic though. :D

Back onto horses - I found EA has given breed names for the basic horse (in CAS) so we can know what they look like, but after you exit CAS it doesn't really mean anything.  They make Clydesdales heavy, long manes, feather hooves.  Thoroughbreds are lean and fine boned.  etc. But after that its all kinda wishy-washy.  Honestly I like the horses regardless of breed, only thing that bugs me are the horses that are so sucked up in the gut they look like greyhounds... seriously? I would be calling the spca if I saw your horse look like that. 

:)

Offline Joria

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 04:08:42 AM »

Back onto horses - I found EA has given breed names for the basic horse (in CAS) so we can know what they look like, but after you exit CAS it doesn't really mean anything.  They make Clydesdales heavy, long manes, feather hooves.  Thoroughbreds are lean and fine boned.  etc. But after that its all kinda wishy-washy.  Honestly I like the horses regardless of breed, only thing that bugs me are the horses that are so sucked up in the gut they look like greyhounds... seriously? I would be calling the spca if I saw your horse look like that. 

:)


This whole horse thing has so peaked my interest that I started looking up breeds.  There is one spot I found, (among many), http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/   that has a long list of breeds in a column to the right.  Dear Gussie!  I never knew there were that many breeds of horses!, and all stemming from 4 ancestral lines.  Sometimes the breed listed will have pictures and be very informative, and sometimes you have to Google a bit further to get the exact horse.  There actually are horses with that sucked up gut you were talking about and it has a purpose.  Pretty much the reason for the different breeds is for a purpose.  At the moment, my favorite breed for beauty and everything else is the American Walking PONY.  That's right, pony, not horse.
It stands about 14 hands high and is usually a 4 or more gaited animal and is beauty on the hoof.  It is one of two breeds mentioned as being true, American breeds.  I also learned the difference between what is a pony and what is a horse, which really surprised me because it has nothing to do with size.

This research, (now ongoing because it is SO interesting), has shown me that EA really did a pretty good job in matching their breed names with their animals.  At least in horses.  (Not so much in dogs or cats!)  Right down to the fact some of the horses have a "metallic" sheen to their coat which goes with a specific breed.  So when I look at the breeds they list, and do a quick check to see how accurate it is, I'm pretty confident I can call an Arabian an Arabian. Check it out and see for yourself.
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Offline cndneh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 12:09:52 PM »

  I also learned the difference between what is a pony and what is a horse, which really surprised me because it has nothing to do with size.


I'd like to know what you read about for the definition of ponies... I've been in the horse industry for 13 years and riding horses for 24 years so I have a set description of ponies, but would like to hear what you read. :)

Offline Joria

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 01:32:40 PM »
I'd like to know what you read about for the definition of ponies... I've been in the horse industry for 13 years and riding horses for 24 years so I have a set description of ponies, but would like to hear what you read. :)

From Wikipedia:

The distinction between a horse and pony is not simply a difference in height, but other aspects of phenotype or appearance, such as conformation and temperament. Ponies often exhibit thicker manes, tails, and overall coat. They also have proportionally shorter legs, wider barrels, heavier bone, shorter and thicker necks, and short heads with broad foreheads. They may have calmer temperaments than horses and also a high level of equine intelligence that may or may not be used to cooperate with human handlers.[28] In fact, small size, by itself, is sometimes not a factor at all. While the Shetland pony stands on average 10 hands (40 inches, 102 cm),[33] the Falabella and other miniature horses, which can be no taller than 30 inches (76 cm), the size of a medium-sized dog, are classified by their respective registries as very small horses rather than as ponies.[34]
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Offline cndneh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 03:02:44 PM »
From Wikipedia:

The distinction between a horse and pony is not simply a difference in height, but other aspects of phenotype or appearance, such as conformation and temperament. Ponies often exhibit thicker manes, tails, and overall coat. They also have proportionally shorter legs, wider barrels, heavier bone, shorter and thicker necks, and short heads with broad foreheads. They may have calmer temperaments than horses and also a high level of equine intelligence that may or may not be used to cooperate with human handlers.[28] In fact, small size, by itself, is sometimes not a factor at all. While the Shetland pony stands on average 10 hands (40 inches, 102 cm),[33] the Falabella and other miniature horses, which can be no taller than 30 inches (76 cm), the size of a medium-sized dog, are classified by their respective registries as very small horses rather than as ponies.[34]

Super broad idea behind ponies, since there are horses that can fit the description written above.  I've known ponies to be as wild and high strung as horses, and horses that are so calm they are almost comatose.  The easiest way and most accurate is the size, anything smaller than 14.2 hands high (4 inches to a hand so approx. 58 inches or... 4 feet, 10inches) anything higher than that is classified as a horse.  Now I've known horse breeds which are typically large animals to end up being pony size (mutation I suppose) but we would still call it a pony, even though its a horse breed with horse characteristics, and horse appearance.  Based on the physical description above you could say Clydesdale's and other heavy horses (think Budweiser horses) could be classified as ponies, they have thick manes/tails wide barrels, heavier bone and broad foreheads, yet they can get up to 18+ hands high. (72 inches/ 6+ feet at the shoulder)  You said it has nothing to do with size... size is one of the key elements, however there are a lot of other factors, as you have pointed out.

But this is all from personal experience and unfortunately Wikipedia, while mostly accurate, I've heard has some mistakes.  But I am glad EA has gotten some breed specific characteristics correct on their base models.  And I wish there were ponies for the kids to play with!

:)

Offline Joria

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 01:38:37 PM »
  And I wish there were ponies for the kids to play with!

:)

What is particularly annoying to me is they have Petite Pony facilities but no ponies!  And if the kids can feed, groom, and love on the horses, why on earth can't they ride and train them?  In rl you'd have your kid on a horse as soon as you could safely do so.  It's frustrating.  I know there are events for kids with horses and ponies, and since they already have the facilities, I want the ponies! 

Our only experience with a pony was with one ornery, stubborn, opinionated, cuss who was basically the size of a small horse.  He was a gorgeous animal and I think would have been much better had we known more of how to meet his needs, especially for affection and just needing to be touched.  He was so aggressive we thought he was mean, never realizing his pushing people was just his way of saying, "Hey!  I need some hugs!"  Just goes to show that people who really don't know much about horses/ponies shouldn't have one before they know how to keep them properly! 
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Offline cndneh

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 02:49:26 PM »
a lot of horses/ponies end up like that, they push and shove and people give them treats thinking 'this will make them nicer'  and all they are doing are rewarding rude behavior (no different than an dog jumping up onto you, almost knocking you down and you giving him a treat for it) Ponies are really bad for it because they are often ridden/handled by kids who don't know whats right and whats wrong.  I could go into a rant about it (working at a farm with 45 horses, half client horses, a bunch of ponies as well I see a lot of treat rewards for 'cute' behavior... cute ends up being pushy/shovey/ornery behavior in the long run)  But I wont since this is suppose to be about Sims.

I totally agree with you, they should have ponies to train, like you said they can brush, and love (and even bottle feed the foals) then they should be allowed to get up and ride!  Maybe even lead around on ponies by adults to start off with. 

Offline ArianaJade

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2011, 03:45:28 PM »
I haven't got Pets (yet) but I'm also quite disappointed there's no ponies. In real life I've had four ponies, as being small I can get away with riding them still. Two Welsh (Timmie and Misty), a Dartmoor (Ellie) and a Thelwell pony of uncertain breed (Baggins). All of them were much, much harder work than horses, but also friendlier, cleverer and much more fun.

Not having breeds would make sense from a game perspective, though, as it'd probably be a fair amount of additional power to keep track of what colours a horse could be from its breed, and all the various crossbreeding and the difficulties with colour that could entail. Although I suppose they can already combine the looks of the horses to get their foal anyway, if it's like human sim genetics.

Offline CowgirlBlues

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 04:46:03 PM »
It is a little unrealistic that a mating pair of the same breed, such as two Arabians, has produced a foal that shows up as "Mixed" in the Equestrian Center after I've sold it. Also, I previously had perceived that the "purebred" foals earned more at the equestrian center than mixed foals, since i've sold two foals with the same skills and got different prices for each. 

After reading this essay I did an experiment, and to make a long story short, I proved Mary right about breeding and sale price (not that she needed it). I concluded the price difference I noticed was due to the fact that the horse's Mood Meter also affects the sale price. A horse in a bad mood will have a lower sale price than the same horse sold with needs static. Max your horse's needs to max the sale price. (If this is old news, I apologize.)
Check out my app "Equestrian Center - Horse Guide for The Sims 3:Pets" for iPhone and iPad. Everything you need to know to adopt, befriend, train, breed, and sell your horses. All about Unicorns too! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/equestrian-center-horse-guide/id482247698?mt=8&uo=4

Dellena

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2011, 05:19:35 PM »
I hadn't read that before so thanks for that tip!  If it's been mentioned, I've missed it. :)

Offline CowgirlBlues

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Re: Confusion About Horse Breeds
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2011, 12:49:53 PM »
Np Dellena. Also, I think that the Frisian breed is misspelled in CAS. From Wikipedia:
Quote
The Friesian (also Frisian) is a horse breed originating in Friesland, Netherlands.
Check out my app "Equestrian Center - Horse Guide for The Sims 3:Pets" for iPhone and iPad. Everything you need to know to adopt, befriend, train, breed, and sell your horses. All about Unicorns too! http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/equestrian-center-horse-guide/id482247698?mt=8&uo=4