Author Topic: Over-Emotional Trait  (Read 12730 times)

Offline Pam

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Over-Emotional Trait
« on: January 20, 2010, 02:29:45 AM »
I'm sure most of you are aware of Carl's and Metropolis Man's fondness for the Over-Emotional trait.  It increases positive moodlets by 20%, I believe, and consequently makes everything better.  Improving skills, making money, climbing a career ladder...  all benefit from the increase.  Or do they?  It was suggested in another thread that we do a side-by-side comparison of two virtually identical Sims:  same traits, same career, same life.  The only difference being that one has the Over-Emotional trait and the other doesn't.  How much difference would it make in how fast the Sim advances?  How would it impact money?  Well, I just finished the test and I'm floored by the results.

Sim number one is Marcus Welby.  His career is in the Medical field and the goal is to reach level 10.  His traits are:

Neat
Genius
Bookworm
Workaholic
Over-Emotional

Sim number two is Joe Gannon.  Same career field.  His traits are:

Neat
Genius
Bookworm
Workaholic
Clumsy

I felt that Clumsy would be a neutral trait and wouldn't effect his job one way or the other.  Both lived at 2 Ely Court in Riverview.  I furnished both houses the same.  Same car.  Same everything.  Both went through their careers, wrote two books, and had friends and a romantic interest.  I played the two games indentically as much as I could.  I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise.  No traveling, no collecting, no gardening or fishing.  All they did was work, cook meals, write, and socialize.  I tallied up several items for both Sims and the surprising result was that the Sim WITHOUT the Over-Emotional trait won, hands down.

Marcus Welby's stats (Over-Emotional trait):

Cash on hand:  $23,670
Value of lot:  $12,579
Total net worth:  $36,249
Lifetime Happiness points accrued:  92,062
Time on clock when level 10 was achieved:  Week 4, day 5, 5:00 p.m.
Skills:  Logic - level 9, Cooking - level 5, Charisma - level 5, Handiness - level 3, Writing - level 6

Joe Gannon's stats (Clumsy trait):

Cash on hand:  $26,991
Value of lot:  $12,485
Total net worth:  $39,476
Lifetime Happiness points accrued:  106,017
Time on clock when level 10 was achieved:  Week 4, day 5, 5:00 p.m.
Skills:  Logic - level 8, Cooking - level 6, Charisma - level 7, Handiness - level 4, Writing - level 6

My summary is that perhaps the Over-Emotional trait is beneficial in more long term challenges as the advantages start piling up with larger value moodlets down the line, but in just the regular world for a working stiff...  it doesn't help at all.
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Offline Swede1992

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2010, 06:32:49 AM »
Really interesting results you got here! These things are really fun to read about! :)

I do not doubt your ability to try the over-emotional trait this way, but just to play the devil's advocate; which did you do first? Just that, if you did the over-emotional first, then maybe you got experience on how to play that person better the 2nd time?
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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2010, 07:09:38 AM »
Nice work, Pam. Chad Everett would be proud. Oh, man now I'm going to be hearing that blaring siren intro to Medical Center in my head all day!

Offline Pam

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2010, 07:40:12 AM »
Really interesting results you got here! These things are really fun to read about! :)

I do not doubt your ability to try the over-emotional trait this way, but just to play the devil's advocate; which did you do first? Just that, if you did the over-emotional first, then maybe you got experience on how to play that person better the 2nd time?

I did play the one with the Over-Emotional trait first, but I was very careful to play them the same.  I'm experienced enough in Sims 3 that I can play two Sims the same way.  I'm confident that my numbers are solid.
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Offline Swede1992

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2010, 01:04:53 PM »
Great! Just wanted to clear any possible doubt on this! ;)
I've always wondered how good the over-emotional trait is in the big picture, seeing as I never play with it (evil, mean, loner, kleptomaniac etc. are more fun to me)
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Offline romagia

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2010, 01:41:58 PM »
I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise. 

Huh? That could mean that the clumsy one got a raise opportunity, while the over-emotional didn't, woudn't it?

Offline Swede1992

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 02:10:29 PM »
But raise opportunities are one of those nifty little chances you get all throughout the game. It's not worse than, lets say, NOT getting electrocuted while repairing a microwave oven.
It should be a part of the game, and if you would test exactly how fast they can get rich/promotions, as was a large part here, it would do injustice to the experiment to exclude them since it's a part of what you're researching!
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Offline Pam

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 02:51:15 PM »
I didn't accept opportunities that would put money in the bank unless it was for a raise. 

Huh? That could mean that the clumsy one got a raise opportunity, while the over-emotional didn't, woudn't it?

Considering that both of them achieved level 10 on exactly the same day, they both had the same chances to get opportunities related to their jobs.  If various opportunities came up as a result of their skill, performance, or mood, that's perfectly fair within the spirit of the experiment.  The ones I didn't accept were the opportunities to make money by preparing a recipe, etc.  But if one of them got the chance for a raise by making friends with someone at City Hall, yes, I took it.  Which, by the way, both of them got that opportunity.
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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2010, 03:02:29 PM »
This was really interesting, Pam. And I appreciate you taking the time to do it. If I had to guess on whether Over-Emotional impacts career performance vs. skilling speed more, I'd definitely say skilling. Your little experiment pretty much shows that OE doesn't have a huge impact on career advancement. But, having a good mood seems to have a pretty serious impact on how quickly skills are learned.

Offline Pam

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 03:09:34 PM »
I would have thought so, too, Metro.  But these two Sims had a good deal of skilling going on.  I included stats on five different skills that they both worked on during the course of their careers.  The one without the Over-Emotional trait came out ahead by at least a point on all but one skill.  And they tied on that one.
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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 03:18:54 PM »
That's really bizarre. And it almost doesn't make sense to me. I recently did my own little OE experiment with a Zeus and Hera test couple for the nectar tourney. I wanted to see how quickly both of them could hit lvl 3 gardening to unlock the fertilizer option. So, for Round 1 I immediately sent the newly created couple immediately to bed and when they woke up had them Woo Hoo. So, the big thing there is they both had the nice Well Rested moodlet and the Having a Blast moodlet. Then they got to gardening and I think it took them around 15 plantings exactly to get to lvl 3.

For round 2 I exited the couple without saving and started again. This time they just immediately started planting and they could not fertilize after 15 plantings. It was close. But, I had to dig into the Inventory with the freebies they received to tick them over to lvl 3. So, at least in that little experiment, mood does help the skilling a bit. Is it night and day? Definitely not.

Offline jmz95

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 03:57:19 PM »
So let me see if I understand this correctly. You're saying that OE has little or nothing to do with any short term playing. However over, say 15 weeks 2 days, OE has a big impact? Did you by chance test these characters past the time it took them to get to level 10 in their careers?
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Offline Eftyen

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 08:23:16 PM »
Metro - Nice tip with the sleep/woohoo combo!

I'm guessing it doesn't matter what the mood bonuses come from, or whether your Sims are at or above the top of their mood bubble.  As long as it's full, it should have the same positive effect on skilling, task-speed, etc.

Metro, do you remember how full the bubbles were for the second test?

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 08:33:55 PM »
Metro - Nice tip with the sleep/woohoo combo!

Oh, that's golden. I've done that for most of my recent challenge characters. Well, assuming there's two characters. Couldn't do that in Perfectly Happy. With solo characters I usually put them to bed right away, and then immediately send them to the Library to play video games to get the Having a Blast moodlet. It's tough because compared to Woo Hoo, that route eats up a couple more hours.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter what the mood bonuses come from, or whether your Sims are at or above the top of their mood bubble.  As long as it's full, it should have the same positive effect on skilling, task-speed, etc.

That I don't know. The Zeus and Hera that Woo Hoo'd and were Well Rested were unquestionably completely green on their mood bubble. The question is, let's say they also had the +93 to mood moodlet from a Spa vacation thrown in too. Would they have hit lvl 3 gardening quicker than planting 15 plants? I don't know.

Metro, do you remember how full the bubbles were for the second test?

They definitely weren't completely full (Elated). It was however full brand new Sims are. I don't know what the term is when you hover over the bubble — happy, maybe?

Offline Pam

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 10:35:56 PM »
That's really bizarre. And it almost doesn't make sense to me. I recently did my own little OE experiment with a Zeus and Hera test couple for the nectar tourney. I wanted to see how quickly both of them could hit lvl 3 gardening to unlock the fertilizer option. So, for Round 1 I immediately sent the newly created couple immediately to bed and when they woke up had them Woo Hoo. So, the big thing there is they both had the nice Well Rested moodlet and the Having a Blast moodlet. Then they got to gardening and I think it took them around 15 plantings exactly to get to lvl 3.

Neither of my Sims did any gardening or fishing.  Their skills were mostly related to their careers and just surviving.  They didn't advance to the point where they got any large positive moodlets.  They were in the Medical career, which has very long hours.  So, they spent their time studying, working, sleeping, and eating.  And some socializing.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. You're saying that OE has little or nothing to do with any short term playing. However over, say 15 weeks 2 days, OE has a big impact? Did you by chance test these characters past the time it took them to get to level 10 in their careers?

It was the short term play that was in question.  Specifically, as regards careers.  So, that's all I tested.  They focused on reaching level 10 in Medicine, nothing else.
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Offline Tealeaf

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 09:11:49 PM »
Interesting to get some hard data on the question.  Thanks, Pam!

     I think that it is clear the Over Emontion is a good trait to have as long as you manage your sim's life in such a was as to take advantage of the benefits.  But I'm not sure I believe it is universally better than say one of my favorite traits, neurotic.  With that one a sim can check the nearest sink and then freak out, both giving near instantaneous moodlet bonuses.  Of course the check sink one is minor and fades away quickly, but I think the freak out moodlet is pretty substanial. 

   So which is the better trait?  I'm going to guess that answer depends on who is playing that particular sim.  We aren't all the same person, and we don't all have fun the same way.
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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2010, 09:14:43 PM »
So which is the better trait?  I'm going to guess that answer depends on who is playing that particular sim.  We aren't all the same person, and we don't all have fun the same way.

Absolutely. You're spot-on there. That list that I threw up for the best traits for career Sims is obviously what I do. Almost any combo of traits works for Sims if you're diligent. By the way, what kind of moodlet does Freak Out provide and how long does it last?

Offline TGBlank

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2010, 09:24:59 PM »
Don't have a neurotic with me to test, but it lasted more than 4 hours and it was at least a +20 (tho i don't remember if that sim was also over emotional).

One thing i noticed with a neurotic perfectionist painter (who may have been either over emotional or hopeless romantic) i made once is that she got 250 LTH wishes to do the dishes almost on every meal, Plus sink-checking and stove-checking ones.

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 09:32:39 PM »
One thing i noticed with a neurotic perfectionist painter (who may have been either over emotional or hopeless romantic) i made once is that she got 250 LTH wishes to do the dishes almost on every meal, Plus sink-checking and stove-checking ones.

Yeah, I'm wondering if this is one of the tricks used by the leaders in the Perfectly Happy tourney. There's been some great happiness points racked up in that event. For more than I've ever accomplished.

Offline Tealeaf

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 10:03:51 PM »
I just created a brand new, standing in his empty lot sim to play the Centurian challenge.  He is neurotic and neat, not over emotional, and his first tranqil moodlet from freaking out was +10 mood for eight hours.  Not as big a boost as from the OE trait, I suspect, but near instantaneous, and the neurotic and neat traits do combine to give some killer lifetime happiness point.
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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 10:32:03 PM »
... and the neurotic and neat traits do combine to give some killer lifetime happiness point.

I know. That's gotta be the big secret in Perfectly Happy. Or at least one of the techniques some of the big players are using.

Offline Carl

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 12:48:28 AM »
These results are interesting indeed, but I'd like to offer a couple of observations for criticism from you guys. Although Pam's original test was to see how OE affected career performance. I think in these cases Over Emotional can serve a major role regardless because they will require you to do less to reach that coveted green mood bar and green career mood smiley. For a pro player going after a career, they will have to do less to achieve each of these benefits. Once the career mood metric smiley is green, it's done. It can't get better. In some instances if you can keep the mood metric fine without going out of the way OE can be ditched, as far as careers go.

Someone on the forum also told me that there's a difference in lifetime happiness point generation the higher the mood bar. With these results I question that idea. Consider this: Pam is a pro player, she's very good at the game and can maintain consistency throughout two tests. The clumsy Sim managed to earn more points. This seems odd, because the over-emotional Sim must have always had a higher "happiness score" given the same moodlets and I know Pam wouldn't let them stay unhappy, negating the potential negative effects of the trait.

This results in a  1/5 higher mood bonus no matter what the OE Sim does. While we can chalk some of this up to random variation in the wishes offered to the Sim, I must wonder if meeting the positive happiness gain on the mood bar is actually inferior to having a maximized mood bar. True, sometimes the two Sims in the test would be equal, but over that course of time the OE Sim would have to, on average, have a higher mood total yet clumsy won.

I'm reevaluating my stance on this trait because of this, unless someone can provide concrete evidence that having the mood bar completely maximized makes a real impact on happiness point generation. However we all know that the bulk of lifetime happiness will come from completing wishes.  From here, it looks like meeting "green" on either career or mood is quite enough and the only role OE could serve is requiring you to perform fewer tasks to reach either of those "greens".




Offline e^(pi*i)

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2010, 12:52:28 AM »
Here's my take on it- Being clumsy makes people happier and more successful.

Maybe this should have been tried with never-nude.

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Online Metropolis Man

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2010, 06:43:56 AM »
Someone on the forum also told me that there's a difference in lifetime happiness point generation the higher the mood bar.

That would have been me.

With these results I question that idea. Consider this: Pam is a pro player, she's very good at the game and can maintain consistency throughout two tests. The clumsy Sim managed to earn more points.

You dare question me!  :D No, seriously, I was surprised at Pam's results as well. Here's the concrete proof you need, my friend. And this is really the only way it can be measured. Once you start throwing in wishes and everything, and stretching things over weeks, forget it. There's too many unknowns.

Okay, the test couple in question are my brand, spanking new Zeus and Hera for the nectar challenge.

Test A. Put Zeus and Hera to bed immediately and have them Woo Hoo upon waking up. Run the clock til 12PM. Lifetime Happiness points accumulated: 384 between the 2 of them.

Test B. Take out the sleeping factor and just have them Woo Hoo. Run the clock to 12PM. Lifetime Happiness accumulated between the two of them: 311.

So, what's learned: they were elated in both situations. But, the extra Well Rested moodlet added more LTHP to the total. Fulfilling wishes obviously has a much larger impact. But, the higher the mood, the faster you'll earn happiness points. No question about it.

Offline Swede1992

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Re: Over-Emotional Trait
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2010, 10:58:24 AM »
No questions whatsoever that it maybe makes a difference, but in the big picture, how much difference? Pam's excellent research on this shows that it may just be a superficial bonus, so we may be stuck here for months trying to argue if you could do it differently to better see the difference before someone actually can prove it with several full-scale games ;).
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